In episode 44 of Everything is Up, Tammera Hollerich welcomes Stephanie Spicer as they highlight the value of curiosity in various aspects of life, including sales and marketing, where understanding others' motivations and needs is crucial in influencing their actions. They also explore the human aspect of marketing and whether AI can evolve to have those qualities.
Tune in to hear Stephanie's inspiring story and insights into building a thriving career.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:06:21] Raising Adult Children.
[00:12:08] Valuations of Businesses.
[00:17:07] AI and Marketing Industry.
[00:19:01] AI and Human Creativity.
[00:23:11] AI and Legal Implications.
[00:29:33] Curiosity and Sales.
[00:31:49] Pursuing Passions and Parental Expectations.
In this episode, Tammera Hollerich and Stephanie Spicer explore the topic of children's innate ability to think creatively and be open-minded. They share insights from a business improv session where a speaker discussed how children's right-brain thinking enables them to be more creative and open-minded.
In addition, Tammera and Stephanie emphasize how emotional appeal plays a significant role in decision-making and marketing. They even explain that we make split-second decisions based on our emotions and then rationalize them afterward. This suggests that emotions heavily influence our decision-making process, with logic serving as a means to justify our choices.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Tammera Hollerich
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TammeraHollerich
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammerahollerich/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thollerich/
Stephanie Spicer
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-spicer-a914903/
WEBSITES
Everything Is Up: https://everything-is-up.simplecast.com/
Tammera Hollerich: https://tammerahollerich.com/
Luquire: https://luquire.com/
Welcome to everything is up a podcast about the real life stories of people who have created extraordinary levels of success These are conversations with people who are constantly striving to take things to the next level And now here's your host
Welcome to Everything is Up with Tamara. Joining me today is Stephanie Spicer with the marketing firm Loquire. You guys are, Stephanie, thank you so much for being here. You guys are, you work remote, correct?
Or are you in the office? Yeah, so Loquire has about 70 employees and probably 20 of us are in different states. So we are kind of all over the country, but we have a, um, like a coworking space that we use when we need to. But for the most part, yes, we are entirely remote.
All right. So where are you located?
So that the headquarters, if you will, the official headquarters is in Charlotte, North Carolina, in case people are still confused about that. But, you know, we're starting, I feel like with, you know, we have a handful of people in Minneapolis, a handful of people in New Hampshire, Maine, a handful of people in Florida, California. So I feel like we're starting to get a little solid offices in a number of places, but yeah, especially Charlotte. Nice. Okay. And you are where? I wear at this very moment or where do I live?
Where do you live?
I live in Charlotte. So I am like three miles from the psycho working space. Oh, nice. And to back up pre pandemic, we were like traditional brick and mortar. Everybody worked in one office in Charlotte. So it was really the pandemic that kind of changed everything for us.
Oh, yeah, welcome to being sent to your room for three years, right? It changed the dynamic of families. It changed the dynamic of workspaces. Yeah. Everything. Not an uncommon conversation anymore, really. It's kind of the norm. OK, so you actually, in my bit of research, you actually grew up in a really small town. in Virginia.
You did do research. Yes, I did. A tiny little town called Hamilton.
Population 506. Is that right? Yes, that's what I found.
That's even smaller than I knew.
All right. So Stephanie, talk to me about, I mean, you have come, I mean, you've come up, you've gone to school and you're successful. You just got named partner and you come from this really small town. So let's go back to the beginning. Um, let's talk about your family life as a kid, growing up in a small town. And how did you end up in Charlotte?
I mean, this could be a 30-second story or like a three-hour story. So I'll try to balance it somewhere, but I'll have that. Perfect. Yeah. So I grew up primarily in different parts of Virginia, but I spent like the part of my childhood that I remember in Hamilton, as you mentioned, which was very storybook, right? So my parents were married at the time. They divorced when I was in college. My mom stayed home. My dad was an engineer. So, you know, you can totally see how I got into advertising. There's really no connection there at all. And I loved Loudoun. I hated it at the time. I look back on it, and I'm like, I'm sorry, Loudoun is the county. So I lived in Hamilton, the town. Loudoun was the county. And since nobody knows the town, you refer to the county. And at the time, I was like, I need to get out of here. I need to get out of here. I can't wait to get out of here. And so I went to, and my parents were like, you're going to in-state school because there's no way we're paying for you to go out of state. So I went to Virginia. Great school. Love UVA. And I wanted to go into advertising. And really, if you want to be in advertising, you go to New York. And so I was in New York. I told myself, I didn't really want to be in New York. I was like, this will be fine for a couple years. eight years later because I loved it so much. It was such an amazing experience. We wanted to start a family. And it's just, it's not easy when you're in New York without family, you know, and trying to make a living to have kids. And so we said, what would be a great up and coming city to start our new lives in? And so we kind of put our finger down on Charlotte on the map without any exposure to it. And here we are.
So you, it's not like you had a job that took you to Charlotte. You guys just said, we need to kind of go.
Basically, I mean I will say that we knew we wanted to be here My husband got lucky and I was such a long story. I was Pregnant at the time and so he was that we kind of said this is actually funny We were like we're putting my career on the back burner. We're gonna follow him down and his career down to Charlotte He got a job with Bank of America And I have a hard time putting my career on the back burner. And so here I am. I
Okay, so married, right? At the time, how many kids do you guys have now?
Two. So my daughter, who I was pregnant with at the time, is 13. She just turned 13. Holy crap, I'm so scared. And then I have, yeah, right? And then I have a 10-year-old son.
Oh, nice. Okay, so you've got them in preteen, kind of that tween, getting ready. You know, that's in advertising. So you've got it made. If you've been advertising and marketing to people, that's just a big marketing job to your kids. I mean, really, that's what it is. And you've just got to be really good at it. And apparently you are.
I will say the difference between marketing to a target audience and my kids is the target audience doesn't necessarily argue back. So this is true.
Target audience doesn't argue back, children do.
They don't argue back, yeah.
And as they get a little bit... They're definitely slaying. Yeah. Well, and as I get a little bit older, the arguments just get more and more and more so. So I'm told. So you're told. Yes. It's a little, it's a little daunting. So mine turns 20 today and I was happy birthday. Yeah. So mine turns 20 today. And I told her, it's like raising adult children's worse than raising you when you were a teenager. So I'm not sure which one's going to be worse here. So whatever. So, but anyway, okay, so how did you, did you land a job at La Crosse right away or was that something that came after the fact? With LaCroix? With LaCroix. sorry, it's Lukewire. Lukewire. Lukewire. Okay.
Not like drinking water. Okay. It's okay. You know what? You're not the only person we actually need to do. We need to do a scoop on that. So it gets easier for people to understand. Um, so Yeah, it's a it's a long convoluted story. But no, I actually I moved to Charlotte, and I we were gonna put my career in the backburner. And I had my daughter and and we knew what I was still going to work, but it wasn't going to be that high power New York agency career, right? Which is such a joke, by the way. So I was... I wanted to go back and I didn't actually want to be in advertising anymore. I wanted to get out of advertising. Yeah. That's my dirty little secret. And... But I had a recruiter call me and he was like, listen, this firm, this agency is different. You should just try it. And so I did. And he was not wrong. Very different in some good ways and in some bad at the time. This was again 12 years ago. And yeah. So here we are 12 years later.
So coming from that, you know, high power New York agency into something that is so much different. How is that transition? as you're married, you have a family, you've got kids, you're been here, and you're going here, and it's different, right? And in what ways would you say it's different? And then how is that for you? Like for you as you're actually in your day to day, what is it that makes La Croix different?
Oh, gosh. Um, well, it was hugely different. And for a number of reasons. And again, the agency that we were 12 years ago, it's very different than the agency we are today. So I'm going to blend it a little bit together. You know, I think the biggest thing is, is in New York, It's not as... It's not as collaborative. The clients aren't as... You're a vendor. They're not as... I don't know. They just kind of... You're a little bit more of an order taker. And there was a real opportunity with the clients when I started with Loopwire to be a partner to help... A lot of times they weren't necessarily marketers in their backgrounds. And so it was a lot of bringing them along. But one of the biggest reasons I wanted out of the New York City ad agency game is the egos. I don't know if you know many people in the advertising industry, but it's known for its egos. Sure. And I was done. I didn't want to do that anymore. And Loopwire from day one has never had egos. And it's... And we have... Again, we've evolved a lot as an agency over the past few years, especially the last couple. But that's still something we really prioritize is we're all in this together. We and our clients are all in this together. And we can't have egos because you can't do it without the other people.
Well, yeah, you know, with myself having small businesses, having partners, right, is huge. You said the key word when you said collaborative. You know, I'm very much involved in some of the day-to-day operations of my business. I have an idea, but I don't know the technical aspect of how to implement, right? And I don't want to just give someone an idea and then just do exactly what I said, because what if the technicality is wrong, right? From marketing and advertising, and it is vast anymore. You don't just go, I'm going to wrap my vans and that's going to be my marketing, right? What does that look like together and where is my social media and what social media outlets and my target markets changing how do I talk to this like how do I merge and talk to both at the same time that is so big like and when you're trying to do it. you know, what is it? 67% of businesses here in the U.S. are small to medium-sized businesses, right? That's a huge amount of businesses that are somewhat trying to figure it out by themselves. And they don't need an order taker. They need a partner. And they have to have that collaboration.
Right. And I think, you know, even larger businesses, mid-sized businesses, larger businesses, because exactly what you said, our industry is so much more complicated than it used to be. you need you do need a thought partner you need someone that says okay you know if you came to me and you said i really want to do this and i think this is going to do xyz how do i do it my response to you should never be well this is how you do it my response you should always start with What is your goal? What is your objective? What are you trying to accomplish? Because what I want to work with you on is, is that truly the best way to accomplish your goal, right? And that's really what we try to cultivate at our agency is people who can work with their clients and can ask the right questions and can support them and really dig in to understand what it is that is going to let them feel like they're winning and let them be winning.
So let's say you get this, I mean, that's huge advice. I mean, that right there is just massive. I just left a luncheon where there was a keynote speaker and talking about valuations of businesses, you know, for, you know, getting ready to sell. And part of the conversation, and it kind of, I just kept thinking about us jumping on the podcast today because part of the conversation was, you know, Do you have the right target audience as well? Because that repeat business adds a ton of value to the bottom line of your business. Whether it's that client will be back in two weeks or in two months, you've got that client base. So having the right target audience, if you were talking to small businesses, because our audience is a lot of CEOs for businesses, where would you tell them to start in making sure they had the right target audience and that they were talking to them the right way?
Well, I would say, first of all, make sure you have a good marketing partner. Because doing... I think one of the hardest things is to do it on your own and to not have someone who can provide that external perspective. And part of the reason I say that is, we actually, as I said, we reinvented ourselves a couple of years ago. And we struggled so much to figure out how we wanted to go to market, how we wanted to sell ourselves. And it was really bringing in somebody else. This is what we do for a living. But it was bringing in somebody else and getting their opinion and their perspective because there was an outsider's perspective. So that is honestly where I would start. And in terms of who your target audience is, I think it very much depends on where your business is in its lifecycle. And so where your target audience currently is maybe great, and you may want to nurture that audience, but you may also want to look outside of where you currently are. So where are the opportunities? Where's the white space in the category? Where are the competitors in my competitive set? What are they missing? And what is it that my unique skill set or my company's unique value proposition who is going to be the most excited about that? And so it's not an easy thing to answer. There's usually a lot of research that needs to happen on the back end, but really having someone who you can bounce those questions off of is incredibly important.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because you said there's a lot of research that goes into it. I think about what marketing must have been like from a research standpoint in the 90s versus what research looks like today in your space, right? Because finding your target audience or the potential new market that you want to go into wasn't quite as easy as it is now. When you think about all the Google Analytics and you think about the, you know, watching SEOs, I mean, there's so many opportunities now that we really didn't have 25 years ago. I mean, even in the early, my staff, I have, you know, some 20 year old on my staff and yeah, they think I'm ancient. So when I, you know, when I say things, when I say things, I'm like, You don't even know what that is to you, right? So a lot of times, you know, phone books, you know, we are so I mean, growing up, we would go through phone books, looking for companies that we wanted to call on. I mean, I don't even know that I've seen a phone book in years.
I don't, I actually don't, I think they don't print them anymore, but you're 100% right. I mean, all of the little questions that we ask ourselves that we immediately go to Google and answer is crazy. The access to data is absurd, you know, but I do think that sometimes it's a detriment not what you're talking about, we were talking about data is perfect for, but sometimes I think people get so bogged down in the information that they have. And that really, sometimes you almost do need to take a step back and do some things, not old school necessarily, because the research, for example, the way you conduct research is different, but the questions that you would ask are the same. And so sometimes I think you've got people in general just get so enamored by shiny objects, that they get distracted. And sometimes you just need to go back to the basics.
Yeah, so speaking of shiny objects and look at the latest, greatest and newest shiny object that's in everybody's face right now, AI, right? And I knew you were going to give me that look. I just knew I was going to get that look. But, you know, one of the one of the areas of concern is the marketing industry and AI and will AI drastically change if not and or replace because that's been, you know, some of the conversations that I've heard are the concern of, you know, AI having that ability. It has the ability to replace a lot of industries, unfortunately, because there are humans in those industries. But marketing tends to be the one that I have heard more about in the last six weeks. of it being the biggest concern, because AI does have that ability of just pushing so much information. And now there are AI programs that are doing graphics and all kinds of crazy stuff. What's your take on that?
You know, I think that just like so many other innovations over the course of history, yes, it will change our industry, but it's not going to replace our industry or reduce our industry. I think, you know, from what I've seen, and listen, AI, it's in terms of the impact, it's the internet, right? I mean, it has that same scope, scale to it. And we're not gonna see the changes that AI can do stopping for years and years and years to come, maybe ever, I don't know. My crystal ball doesn't go that far. But I think that the core of what at least an agency does is it helps people think differently, right? If you're trying to bring a brand to market and you're trying to attract a target audience, you can't put the same message out there that's already been done. Well, that's what AI is doing right now. It's scraping what exists and it's repackaging it. you have to think outside the box, you have to think differently, you have to come at it from a different perspective. And so I think the agents, and I'm speaking specifically to agencies at this point, I think the agencies that do that really well will be protected from the implications of AI. I think if we're talking about, you know, easy content marketing. Yeah, I mean, like, listen, we're using AI tools, we'd be crazy if we weren't using AI tools. But it's never going to replace the human emotion. I mean, they've done some studies about like, what happens when, you know, AI bots write TV scripts, and they're usually hilarious and wrong for a number of reasons, they'll get better. But at least in the short term, in the short term, I mean, the next five to 10 years, they're not going to be able to do the deep thinking and the outside of the box thinking that a really, truly good marketer will do.
That was a conversation I had with somebody who owns a marketing firm is the human aspect is not there when it comes to AI. Now, will it have the ability to get that? That's the big question is, will it evolve at some point or another and have some of those human conditions? I, years ago, you know, and of course I have companies and so sales is my thing. And I had done, Brian Tracy, years and years and years ago, did The Psychology of Selling and had done, now this will really age me, cassette tapes, like this whole cassette tape thing on, you know, The Psychology of Selling. So I remember sitting back and listening to it and it was literally just two weeks ago that there was something that, was said back then and you know I've repeated it several times but I think it makes more sense now when we're talking about AI and that is people still do business with people. With people, 100%. And people they like and people they trust and that stuck with me 25 years ago and I think it still makes way more sense today when we're talking about the marketing, right? Because you still have to talk to other humans. It's humans, you know, somebody's like, well, I do B2B, like I do business to business. I don't do business to consumer. And I'm like, there is a human in that company that you are doing business with, right? So it may be the company, but there's still people, right?
I love that. We don't delineate between B2B and B2C because of that very reason. You're exactly right. They are people. And I don't know if you know this stuff, but somewhere between 90% to 95% of our decisions are made from an emotional place. We don't make them with logic. You make them right here. And then you turn around. And this happens in a split second. You turn around, you rationalize them. So you feel really good about what you did. But at the end of the day, it was emotion that drove it. So to your point, you're selling to people. You're doing business with people. Some of the execution will get for sure. It will get streamlined and AI will help us to do that. But the relationships and the thinking and all of those pieces.
You know, it's interesting if you, you know, some of the big, big companies, Nike, Apple, right? None of their commercials or any of their marketing have really anything at all to do with their product. I mean, I don't know if it was Apple or Nike that did the whole series on young girls where it was, I'm good enough, right? Where they did that whole series and it was good enough. And then it was like, just do it, Nike. I mean, so it must have been Nike, but it was literally just teenage girls. Right? From one shot to the next, to the next, to the next. I'm good enough. I'm good enough. Like, that's right here. Like, yes, you can rationalize.
Beautiful, right? And you love that company. Right. Rationalization is like, well, what does that have to do with shoes? It doesn't matter. I am now, I believe in that. They represent me.
I'm there, right? I'm invested. I'm here. And so, the whole AI conversation is, crazy. I mean, it is almost mind boggling. And mind numbing. Yes, because you have to deal with that every day. I find it fascinating. You know, then what comes to mind is Terminator, but you know, we won't go that path yet. I mean, that might be coming in 10 or 15 years, but we just won't go there right today.
And what would be really interesting to follow is the legal implications, right? With the New York Times suit that happened recently, like that's gonna, I think, dictate so much of where AI can go. So, you know, there's gonna be a lot that we have to stay on top of. And it's a matter of like, using it to the best of our abilities, but also not getting too far over our skis and doing something that we cannot do.
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I recently I say recently, yeah, recently, I decided to go back to school when I have nothing else to do to get my MBA. Okay, so the very first statement out of my counselor's mouth was, if you get caught using AI, you it is automatic grounds for expulsion out of the university i was like really oh and then my brain started going well how are you even gonna know like i mean but but they do they have things that can stand there and she did say she said you know there are ways to track there's you know you plagiarism i mean there was a big plagiarism case here just recently with Harvard, I think it was Harvard, wasn't it? That there was a bunch of plagiarisms. And so, I mean, there are ways to, I'm sure, to get all, but I mean, first words out of her mouth.
That's crazy. And it's also a little bit like, you know, I understand where it's coming from, but at the same time, it's a tool that people should learn how to use. I mean, there are people who make $200,000, and I can't remember what they call them, but they're basically like AI prompt engineers. That's what they're called, prompt engineers. so that they are learning how to write the queries to get you the returns that you need. So the fact that a school is telling you you're not allowed to use it, I don't know, that's probably why I'm not in education.
Well, I think that probably over time, as long as it can be controlled. I think that's a great point. I think over time, it will be an incredible resource. And I think the content that will come out eventually will be just stellar content, content that the average person is not going to be able to come up with. Right now, I mean, anytime I put anything in, I flat no, I have to check it for accuracy, I have to check it for grammar, I have to check it for, you know, for everything and anything because, you know, it is like you said, it's regurgitating everything it can find in five seconds flat, but it's not always I mean we joke here around the office it's the Wikipedia of the universe today because you know anybody can go in and write anything on Wikipedia that they want accurate or not but that's the internet right so but that's all the AI has to pull from so I just don't know if the accuracy is 100% there
Oh, gosh. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, the way we tell our teams to use it, it's a starting point. It's a research tool. And let's be clear, there's also so many different variations of AI, whether it's operational efficiencies or content. I mean, there's a lot of different types of AI that you can use. So there's certain things that are a lot easier. But yeah, for the most part, it's a starting point. never a finishing point.
Yeah, so let's switch up here just a little bit. So I read an article that you were featured in and one of the things that you said in the article is that your daughter loves to have conversations with you because she loves to do problem solving. So we have a 13-year-old, right, who One, I applaud you for having a 13-year-old want to talk to you, so that's a good thing. But how does that work?
You know, I'll tell you, I was just as surprised as you are. She sees me work because I work from home. And so and you know, I do work sometimes at night and I do work sometimes during the weekends. And so she sees this and she asks me what I'm doing and, and I want to have dialogue with her and I want to engage her and I want her to to see the types of problems that I deal with. And so, one of the best examples I can remember was we were doing work for Harris Teeter. And we were trying to figure out what their evolved brand should stand for. And she just dug in and asked all of the questions and had such curiosity. And it was so lovely to be able to share Share my enthusiasm and my passion now that being said she's since wanted to help on almost every project that I've worked on and I'm like sweetheart But you know, we had this business improv guy come in this morning during our all-agency session. And he spent a lot of time talking about children and the ability that they have to think with their right brain and how that makes them so much more creative and so much more open-minded. And even talking with her is a reminder to me of that, right? That we have to embrace that side and we have to be just as curious.
is children are and just develop them that's you know they say kids you know up to the age of five the one word that they speak more than any other is why why why why right and so there's this point in probably somewhere between 10 or 8, 10, somewhere in that range where they said that switch tends to start turning off because parents start saying, because I said so. And I'm guilty, just guilty.
I know. I'm laughing. I'm sure it's happened.
Yes, guilty as charged. But we tend to start turning that switch off for them. And yet, as we get older, What makes us better is the why. Why? Think about sales, right? And whatever position you are in, in a company, or whether it's your own company, you're in sales. And like I jokingly said to you at the beginning, you're a parent, you're in sales, sorry. And you're in marketing, because you really got to get them to do what you want them to do. But our curiosity, we are so afraid of being ostracized. Um, for our curiosity, but in sales, if, or even in marketing, right. As if you're working through problems, if you don't know the answer to why, like there's like, where else do you go?
Absolutely. We have one of our first values at the agency. And we're not the agency that wrote down their values and never used them again. We talk about them all the time. And our very first value is students first, teachers second. Because at the end of the day, this industry especially, but really all industries at this point, are moving so quickly. If we don't ask all the questions, you're going to be left behind. And to the point that we were just talking about earlier when when you first start talking to someone about their marketing, you have to understand what it is they're trying to accomplish. And the same thing for a target audience. You have to understand why they're looking for what they're looking for. And that actually ties back to what you were talking about with Nike as well. The reason they do these beautiful, heart-wrenching commercials is because they connect with you on their why. Their why is connected to your why and suddenly you're like, oh my God, that is a company that I want to support. And that sticks with you when you make those decisions. So the why, I don't know if you listen to the Simon Sinek TED Talks, start with the why, that's like a mantra of mine, is probably the most important question you can ask yourself about almost anything in your life.
Yeah, anything. Why will I marry this person? Why am I staying married to this person? Right?
Yeah, for personal reasons, too. I mean, I think understanding it is, is it really the right thing for me or am I doing it because of some societal reason?
Well, which and how many people, let's be really honest, how many people are doing the thing that they're doing that they hate doing because their parents wanted them to be doctors? or think, right? So how many people are actually living their best life and doing their passion? I think the one thing in the article that I read when I was reading this about you and your daughter is how passionate you are about this field and what you do, which really does explain why you couldn't take the back burner at all, because it's really your passion. And that's, I mean, that is so heartwarming. I have thoroughly enjoyed having this time with you today and talking through it. Tell our audience, you know, they need a good, they need a good marketing team. So how do they get ahold of you at, look,
I've got Stephanie Spire on the mind. I don't have Laquire on my so but how do they get ahold of you? Yeah, best way. just go to Luke wire l u q u i r e.com and there's a wire like look wire l u q lue choir. It's one of those things I was saying earlier, it's so hard to say but once you get it, you can't forget it. So you know, there you go. And fill out a contact us form and we check them regularly multiple times a day. So absolutely, we'd love to talk to you and talk about why you want to do marketing and what your goals are. We're all about uncomfortably ambitious goals. And there's a lot of psychology behind why that is important. But we want to help our clients achieve those goals. So yeah, that's exciting.
So are you personally on LinkedIn?
Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes. Stephanie Spicer SPICER reach out to me. Love to hear from you. Nice, fantastic.
Well, Stephanie, thank you so much and thank Laquire for giving us the time with you today. We really appreciate it and you just have a fabulous and a very blessed 2024. Hope it's very prosperous for you and your family.
Thank you so much. You as well. This has been fantastic. I appreciate it. Take care.
Have a great one. All right. Bye everybody. This is Tamara with Everything is Up. Make sure you like and share the podcast. I appreciate you. Bye.
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