In episode 49 of Everything is Up, Tammera Hollerich interviews Ellen Faulkner, the CEO of Lewis Communications, a full-service advertising and marketing company. Ellen shares her remarkable journey of 34 years at the same company, starting as an account coordinator and eventually becoming CEO in 2022, the first female CEO in the company's history. She discusses her personal challenges, growth, and dedication to growing companies throughout her career.
Tune in for an inspiring story of resilience and success in the business world.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:03:17] Career Without Traditional Education.
[00:08:37] Finding Strengths in Employees.
[00:11:24] Growth and Servant Leadership.
[00:14:09] Learning and Growth in Leadership.
[00:20:30] Adult Children Dynamics.
[00:25:15] Information Overload and Technology.
[00:31:18] Fast-Paced Evolution of AI.
[00:32:53] Speed of Data Analysis.
[00:37:17] Impressive Company Growth and CEO role.
In this episode, Tammera Hollerich and Ellen Faulkner delve into the evolving landscape of marketing and advertising, particularly in the context of rapid technological advancements like AI. Ellen's insights shed light on the importance of adapting to these changes to remain competitive and relevant in the industry.
Furthermore, Ellen's mention of being part of an international network like ICOM showcases the value of collaboration and knowledge-sharing in navigating the complexities of modern marketing. By engaging with industry peers from around the world, businesses can gain valuable insights into emerging trends and best practices, enabling them to stay competitive in a rapidly evolving landscape.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Tammera Hollerich
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TammeraHollerich
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammerahollerich/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thollerich/
Ellen Faulkner
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ellen.p.wingard/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellen-praytor-faulkner-471022a/
WEBSITES
Everything Is Up: https://everything-is-up.simplecast.com/
Tammera Hollerich: https://tammerahollerich.com/
Lewis Communication: https://www.lewiscommunications.com/
Welcome to everything is up a podcast about the real life stories of people who have created extraordinary levels of success These are conversations with people who are constantly striving to take things to the next level And now here's your host
Welcome to Everything is Up with Tamara. Joining me today is Ellen Faulkner with Lewis Communications. And thank you so much, Ellen. I know you are traveling this week, and you're actually at one of the remote offices in Alabama. So thank you so much for taking time in your incredibly busy schedule. Give us a little background on Ellen.
Thank you, Tamara. I'm excited to be a part of this today. I am now CEO of Lewis Communications, which is a full service advertising and marketing company. I have been here 34 years next week. I started as an account coordinator and have been in this role for about two years. I've kind of loved life through that 34 years. I have two children. I was married for 22 years. I got a divorce. I lost both of my family members, gotten remarried, been through a lot. And so I feel like living through work and life is kind of part of what I've enjoyed being able to do here at our company.
Okay, so 34 years, same company in a day and age, which I'm sure as CEO, you know, you know, the average life span of an employee is rocking right around 3 years. So three years times 10, like we're going into 34 almost, you know, I mean, that is a long time. What kept you with Lewis Communications for 32 years, now obviously in 2022 is when you became CEO, first female CEO the company had ever had too, is that correct? Yes, it is. That's impressive. Thank you. Okay, I love it. Okay, so but what was it about Lewis Communications that literally kept you there 32 years?
I think it's probably multiple things. One is I love what I do. And what we do is we grow companies. So you get and you grow multiple types of companies. Right. I don't think I could ever work for an internal marketing department because we're able to work with lots of different clients over the years. And I always say I've learned enough about all of their industries to be dangerous because we get so immersed in their business. Right. So it's never boring. I mean, so even though I've been at the same company for 34 years, I've actually been involved with numerous companies, probably, you know, I don't even know how many, probably a hundred companies over that time that we've helped grow. I would say that's one thing. The other thing is working with the people that I work with are just fabulous. They're so stinking smart and I learn from them every day. So it's fine. I just love it.
Well, so you didn't actually go to school for marketing and communications. And I like your story where you say, you know, I didn't realize what I really wanted to do. And I think so many I was doing a podcast last week, and we had this conversation. I think we do our high school graduates a disservice by forcing them into this mold of, you've got to go to college, you've got to figure it out. How many of us—I'm doing the same thing, I'm not doing what I went to school for—so how many of us walking the planet today went to school for one thing and went, yeah, that's not really who I am. And that's not what I love. And are doing something completely different, but have found their passion.
Yeah. So I'm such that person. I was not ready to make that decision or call. There's people that do grow up thinking they know what they want to do and do end up doing that. I was not one. I played around in college. I had fun, traveled a ton, did a lot of different things, nothing that had to do with my degree. So when I went to go try to get a job, I needed to get married and I was getting married and I needed to have a career at that point, which I had not worked towards. And so I got a sales and marketing accounts person position, hoping to be an art director because my degree is in art. And so I got that. And then I was able to go be a sales, a sales, I mean, art director, excuse me. And then I realized, Ooh, I don't, I don't like that. I love, I love fine arts. That's not going, you know, sculpting and painting, but that was not going to be my livelihood. So I ended up being director of sales and marketing for that company. And I loved being with people. And that was kind of the beginning of it. And then you realize I didn't want to be behind a computer. I wanted to be outside of a computer, even though computers are part of our life. Right. But my kids, both of my kids have been the same way to some degree. I mean, so I mean, our whole being is we learn as we go. But I think a lot of people are that way.
You know, it's really interesting too, because you know, I have a couple of, I have, you know, I have a couple of companies and you know, one of the companies I have is a balloon decor company. And I have a lot of young individuals, young people that are, you know, they're looking for who they are in this world. And so many of them, they're just like, I just don't even know what they're, there's no, there's thought, you know, okay, I want to be a teacher or I was wanting to go do this or what, but they, they start down that path. And then they just really realize that this isn't for them. And then I get the pleasure of having them and, and then get to be an influence, right. To go, Hey, well, let's figure out what it is that you want to do. You know, I've got one girl that's just like, I love balloons. I want to do this. And I'm like, that's fantastic. You know, um, The idea of having joy in your life, I think we put so much pressure out there anymore of You know, you've got to figure it out. You've got to get your life together. You know, do you have to grow up an adult? Yes. Right. We hope that you don't live with mom until you're 30. But I it's so hard when you're 18 years old, looking that straight right down the barrel of that gun, thinking, oh, my gosh, like this is what adulting really is. It's so hard. I don't know how many of the employees that you guys have at Lewis Communication, how many of them come straight out of college or are just really trying to find their way?
Gosh, a good percent of our team members have and do. I would probably if with throughout a year within the first couple of years of college I would say a third to a half of our employees are straight out you know fairly new out of school. One thing I think is so interesting about what you're saying too is that I think that evolves as we go even as you get older you know we have these positions that people apply for and then you think and so you hire this person and they think they're good for that position. We think they're good for that position and then as we grow one of the things that I really work hard to do is shift that position based on that person's strengths and weaknesses. We all have strengths and weaknesses. I have more than I can count. However, I have great people here that complement my weaknesses. Our goal is to pull people's strengths out. I found that their strengths ally with what they love to do, even if they don't realize that they ally together. We work with different people. I'm working with somebody right now who is fabulous in so many ways. struggling with a few other areas to keep up and you're like we really don't need those areas let's just let you thrive here because we need that and others can do that part and we do that all the time and and I think to what you mentioned early ago our tenure at Lewis is probably I think over 55 percent of our company of our employees have been here five years or more So for an ad agency, we're pretty lucky.
That's impressive. I mean, we all know that it's challenging at best when you have higher turnover because you're constantly training or you're constantly trying to mesh personalities. And we had a fairly big turnover here recently ourselves. And one of the things is I told the team, I was like, okay, guys, this is like mom's bringing home new baby, new baby's going to scream and holler for a while. We got about three months of everybody figuring it out. and settling in. And I said, you know, they laugh at me and I'm like, but that's, I mean, and it wasn't but day three and there was already a personality conflict. And I was like, okay, this is what I meant. New guys and old guys, right? This is where we are going to, everybody have to put forth the effort. And I think when I put it to them like that, I had one of the girls tell me later, she said, I had never thought of it like that. You know, and I said, well, nothing's perfect. I said, there's not going to be a perfect situation. New people are uncomfortable. Old people are like, well, this is not how we do things. And I said, so it's just different. And so to be able to have that stability like with that tenure at five years plus. I mean, I don't know that I've talked to anybody here in the last probably five years who has been at the same company for 10 years, much less 34. So do you like get my hat tip? Because I mean, that is, but you grew up there. two and now you have the ability of looking at the past and the future to go this this is where we go you have grown this company so much since you took over two years ago um tell us how you did that gosh that's a that's a that's a big question i think um with a lot of faith
A lot of great people and a focus on more of a servant leadership than managing and really trying to grow. I have grown a lot. We have a consultant that helps us and I try to be self-aware and grow from every single experience. They did a 360 on me not long after I started. And that's when they interview everybody about you and they talk about your strengths and weaknesses. And so I got that pretty quick. And that was really an interesting, humbling experience, but it was fabulous for me, right? recognizing where my strengths, talking about strengths and weaknesses earlier, your strengths and your weaknesses, they can also be the same. And so I learned a lot through that. But I would say it's really, I definitely work, working hard because I work a lot, but I also try to have a strong balance. We always say we work hard and play hard. So it's been a journey, but it's been fun. And it's been a part of having great clients that let us grow together, too. So not only has our company grown, but we have clients that are really partners and friends. And we're very business oriented with them, where we kind of work real closely with their revenue and sales. So when they're meeting their goals, we're meeting, you know, it's like we're in it together. So it's pretty fine. But I do think a huge part of it are the, again, I think the people that I work with, they're just so smart and they're fine. And we've become good friends.
I'm so glad that you brought up the 360 because I had read that where you had once before talked about what a humbling experience it really was to be able to sit back. I mean, I can only imagine. I can only imagine. look, not everybody on this planet loves Tamara Hall Rich, and I like totally get that. And I know I have so much room for growth, but I think I would be terrified to get those, I mean, because you know, people are gonna be honest, because if they're being asked to be honest, they're gonna be honest, give them that opportunity, they will let you know, right? So, you know, you said, it was really humbling From that, what did you take away about yourself?
You know, I think the biggest thing is I am really passionate and I really get involved and work really hard and love what I do and I'm very tenacious. I really don't like to take no for an answer. Oh, my best friend. I literally, I mean, I'll like, I'll rephrase it, you know, 500 ways to see if I can change somebody's mind. But that is also not necessarily a great thing when you're managing people and how you handle that conversation. I think probably one of the biggest things I learned is I do listen. I'm a big listener and I'm a big learner and I'm very curious. How I deliver what's next from that information was probably the biggest thing that I learned. It's not that I'm not empathetic, but I just want to jump right in. So I've had to learn how to slow that down a little bit. Really kind of pace that conversation and make sure that I'm letting that person lead and not managers. I've really learned a lot about the difference between managing and leading and mentoring. And when you've managed more earlier on getting to a leader. more manager, I mean, mentor area is pretty different. And so setting that vision, that's kind of more my role as we've changed a lot. And you can imagine our business. I mean, I'm sure you know this from what you're doing, the way people receive messages, the delivery of messages, our business is changing 24-7. So that pace is pretty big. But balancing that pace with how our team members need to evolve, how our company needs to evolve. That 360 helped me regroup and be like, I've got to think differently about the way I translate what I'm thinking.
I guess for lack of a better word. No, I mean, that's, that's perfect because it's, it is humbling to have to take a step back. Here you are brand new to the CEO role, right? Where a lot of faith is being put into you. And then all of a sudden it's like, you're way up here. And then all of a sudden it's like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We're going to knock you down a little bit. And just, you know, so I can only imagine how you, cause the emotions that go with all of that, as well, because you are human. It's not like, you know, you're not this robot that, you know, I know a lot of people, they look at CEOs, they, you know, or that C-suite and they just think robot, robot, robot, robot, like they're, you know, yes, sometimes they have to turn off the emotion to make those financial decisions or to, you know, make decisions that are not going to be popular, but they're that human side of them on the back side is always like, Whose life am I affecting whose family in my like, I know and as women, we have those thoughts. when we know that we have the livelihood of, you know, these people in our hands, and those decisions are not always easy. So I can only imagine the amount of emotion that had to go into being able to receive the information, right? And then do something with it. So that's, you know, it's pretty impressive. So you said you were married for 22 years, and that's a long time to be married. And then it was like, Okay, we're going to part ways here, but now you're remarried. Yes. Okay, so new husband, right? Tell us about him. He's got to be pretty special men to put up with women as strong as us.
You know, it's so funny. We could not be more different. But we met, we were set up on a blind date. And that was at the point where I literally had absolutely no desire to get remarried. My kids were in high school. He lived across the bay, as we call it here. And my kids were in school on the other side of the bay, about almost an hour away from each other. And it was like, I'm not moving there. You're not moving here. We could not be more different. He's been in real estate. He's had a compost company. We had a polo field that he managed the polo field. And he's kind of semi-retired. So we've had more fun together just being able to travel. And he is one of my biggest supporters. And what I love about my husband is You know, one of the things I've learned is people's background and their family can so affect their work in many ways. And he listens to more conversations than I can count. I mean, when I tell you we're driving somewhere and I always let him drive, or he doesn't give me the option, but he's driving. And which is great because I can work and I need to look down because he drives kind of crazy. But while he's driving and I'm talking or we're at home and he hears me, he does not, when I get off the phone, if it's been a tenuous conversation or he knows something big is going on, he doesn't exacerbate it. You know, he just kind of listens and is very even keeled. And it has meant a ton to me, I think, over time because I've seen other spouses or family members really try to get people riled up about a problem. And it just, it doesn't help. So he's just great in that regard. And he's also been fabulous to my children, who are not children. Their one's about to be 32 and the other one's 29.
Adult children, I jokingly say, adult children are just as hard to raise as children children.
And to not, you know why? Because we have to stay like afar, but you don't want to stay afar. You know what I mean? You have to like, talk about that 360 probably helped me with the way I deal with my kids.
Yeah, well, in all aspects. Yeah, no, adult children are just tough because You can't tell them what to do. You can hope that you can guide them down the right path, but you have to sit back and watch them fail forward. And as a parent, that's really hard to do. And the kids, these young adults, they don't get it. Well, they do get it eventually, but sometimes I think they have to be about 30 or 40. And then they come back and go, oh, I did it with my mom. I walked in one day and I was like, I'm so sorry. I'm literally, I was my mother's most difficult child, as anybody can imagine, if you know me. I was my mother's most difficult child and, you know, the oldest, a lot expected out of the oldest. Right. And so, you know, my husband today, he just he goes, yep. Because it's hard when we are strong. And that's why I asked that question. Because with strong women, especially tenacious women who know really doesn't work well, like somebody was like, yeah, no. And I'm like, that wasn't an option. So it's hard. I mean, over the years, and I've been married 25, And so over the years, our relationship has changed a lot, right? Because you start out and you want to control each other. And now here we are. We're just kind of like, oh, you're going out of town. Great. Have a nice time. When will you be home? Oh, good. I get to bed to myself. Like, it's just the whole thing changes over time. And then he's gone a couple of days. And I'm like, when are you coming home? Now I don't have anybody to talk to at home except for the six of us. So, but it's a lot of fun. So, I read you have dogs. So, yes?
I do have grand dogs right now. You have grand dogs?
Okay. Grand dogs? How did you get grand dogs? My kids' dogs. I'm like, grand dogs?
Yeah, we love dogs, but we don't have any right now. We've lost both of our two dogs, which we loved. But I've loved having grand dogs because we do travel so much. Right. That it's been fun because we keep them a lot. And just like And then I'm like, okay, they're, they're yours now.
I have my brothers. So I have six dogs and I had my brother's dogs last week, which gave me nine and I bring my dogs to the office. So if we're talking or sometimes doing a podcast and you hear them barking, that would be why, because they are here. Um, but nine dogs was way too many. way more challenging. My dogs yesterday in the office, they were all sacked out and it was so quiet. The girls were like, huh, I think they're glad that their cousins are gone. They were actually, they were each other out. That's so true. Yeah. This is, this is fabulous. So this is all great. Um, okay. So what are kind of Marketing you alluded to it a little bit about the changing environment. AI is creating this. monster of a world that we live in and I mean every I swear every time I open up my emails there are some AI something new like and you know what I mean I mean it's like so I know when you like the pace that you guys have to run out to keep up with I mean just keeping up with technology in general like my iPhone's already completely out of date right But keeping up with, as fast as things change, to keep your clients growing the way that you guys do at Lewis, how are you keeping pace?
You know, I say in many ways we've become air traffic controllers because there's so many different elements and ways that people receive messages today that we have about 100 team members. And even with that, we can't necessarily keep up the pace with those team members. So we have a lot of partners that we work with. And our team members have to be like, yes, that's something we can do, or no, we need to pull in that. And we found that our, that company or individual, and we found that so many of our clients today and companies today are having that same problem. Like, how do I keep up with the pace, right? Because there's just this constant need of how to, there's just too much. So, yeah, yeah. And so from, yeah, go ahead.
I was going to say, because I think about being pummeled by so much information all the time. It's like sensory overload 24-7. I mean, I don't think I was able to even really lie down last night to go to sleep, like in a good deep sleep, because I had made the mistake of looking at Facebook, which I absolutely detest anyway. but the information overload that is coming at us 24 seven vying for our attention in every possible medium that there is out there. I mean, it's not just television because it was television. If you're streaming something, you can literally almost get rid of it. But I mean, it's not just television. And when I think back to like, the 70s. I was a kid, right? We watched television. You had to get up, earn the channel. You know, I was the remote control for my dad for years, right? So, so I mean, but you had a little bit more, it wasn't, it wasn't like it is now. I feel like we're on a, like the Autobahn going 500 miles an hour and There's just no stop in sight. Like, it's just like, go and go fast. Is that a wrong analogy?
I think it's absolutely a good analogy. For us, what that means, though, is you kind of narrow in to the different audiences that each of our clients are trying to go towards or either have renewed relationships with or look at trial and new potential relationships with. You kind of have to go in and think about how they're receiving information. And it really starts all the way from who even our clients, our potential companies think their competitors are. Because you may think you compete, but with say so many people in your region but really you're competing with how people are who comes up when you're googled that your service is googled and people don't really think about that and we'll say you know you rank you know number eight when your service is is is somebody puts the information in google and they're like Well, those people above me aren't my competitors. And I was like, well, they are today because that's who people see. So it's real interesting whether you're talking about a wealth management for a bank or home school company or a beauty product with all different types of companies. And it really depends on that. Like you start with where people searching, how are they looking? And then we've got to narrow in. to the way that that person receives information. You can't think all the way out because we'll never, it's to your point, the way it used to be, you know, when I started with the company, it was like, okay, you can do TV, outdoor, print, you know, now it's like there's countless ways to communicate.
Well, I almost feel like there's a subliminal airwave that hits my brain that I don't even see anymore because it's coming so much. You know, when we talk about Googling, and ranking in those Google rankings. I just heard, maybe just two months ago, that Google's changing their algorithms and going to some... How do you even keep up with that? Because you can really work on your SEOs, your search engine optimizations, and you can fine-tune them, and then an algorithm changes.
Yeah, and they're changing all the time. Every single one of those services are changing. I will say one way that we do that is we're members of this international network. It's called ICOM, and it's a network for independent advertising and marketing firms. And so there are people all over the world. We have several people in our office on different committees for AI, for data and analytics, for strategy. I'm on the strategy one. And we're literally talking to people in Malta, London, all over the world, Spain. And it's amazing to learn from them. And we're non-competitors, so we don't compete. So we build on each other's strengths. And it's really a way that we've been able to think of AI. Some of them are using AI in ways that we just didn't really happen in over in the United States yet. So we're able to pull on that knowledge and use that. And AI to me is like this fabulous partner. Yeah, it's exciting. It's overwhelming. But I would say we're probably working in 20 different platforms. right now across the company, but it's all about how you use it from inside out, right? But it does a lot of great things faster, but it's still scary because it's changing everything.
so fast. I mean, that's the thing. And, you know, I wondered, you know, when I first went to school, I was going to be a computer programmer. Probably should have stuck on that path, but didn't, right? I like balloons. I like balloons and healthy eating better. Right, exactly. But I was going to say, you know, I think I changed my major three times when I was in school, just in school, right? So, And that's not unheard of either. But when I was going to school, I mean, this is how long ago it was. I think my first computer class, I was programming in BASIC. And anybody who's listening, this is probably crack up laughing right now, because I think it was BASIC and FORTRAN. We don't even talk about that stuff anymore, right? It's just so antiquated. But now with AI, So fast so fast so fast I mean you blink and there is a new AI platform I wondered you know at that time I was like you know with all this information going into this box. Like, when will it all come back out? Like, do you see what I'm saying? So for what, the last 35, 40 years, because the first computers were in the 50s, technically. So 35, 40 years, information has been pummeled in. Now we're starting to extract it, right? And using it all now with a completely different purpose, which is really interesting. If you step back and think, Why did it take us so long? I mean, I understand, right, but it's really interesting that, you know, for years we've been putting all this information in and now, you know, and then you have the other side of this, right, where I think about the movie Terminator and I'm like, oh, you know, will Skynet take over one day? Who knows, right?
I will say, you know, the good, I think from our perspective is we have been utilizing information for years that's been in books. That's a part of what we do from an analyzing and optimization standpoint of data from our clients, their clients or their CRM database or their revenue numbers and all that we've kind of manipulated. To your point, the crazy part about it right now is the speed. The speed, well, the speed that we're able to even analyze it in different ways, you know, and I was doing a presentation this weekend and I literally, I mean, I was telling my husband, I was like, I couldn't even get it in fast enough. It was coming, I was asking it to summarize just out of curiosity or like, what changes would you make based on this information? And it was like, it's coming back before I even have a chance to, you know, quit touching the keyboard. It is fabulous, but it's so cool because it gets you centered. It isn't complete, it isn't everything you need, but from a strategic standpoint, what it does for us is it gives us more time to do the things to be smarter, to take more information and analyze and optimize more, whereas before you're doing so much more on the front end and then some of that stuff gets push now we're able to do so much stuff quicker and then we do more analyze do more optimize you know and just it makes everything better but it's it's amazing the speed to your point it's really well and it's crazy cool i mean it really is crazy cool and you know small businesses
I think are really going to benefit a lot from having things at their fingertips because, you know, in a smaller business, and I'm sure you know this because you guys have, you know, probably got clients of all sizes, with small businesses, it is very difficult because you don't always have the resources that you need to be able to analyze the data, to pull all that data and information together to go do something with it. So a lot of small businesses are just, they're shooting blind, where now I think they're gonna have more information faster to be able to not shoot so blind and get those, you know, their target markets really honed in to be more precise with the messaging. And I know that I've read that that's really your guys' specialty is, you know, really getting that messaging and talking to the right people for your clients. So Lewis Communication, this might be a silly question, but I'm just going to ask. So are you guys looking for new clients? Always. Like I said, it might be a silly question, but I'm literally. Yeah, no question silly.
But yes, we are. We're always looking for new clients.
Always looking for new clients. So how would anyone in our audience that's listening, small, big, medium-sized companies, how do they get a hold of somebody at the company if they wanted to sit down and have a strategic conversation, or how do they get a hold of you? I know that's a big ask sometimes to pick up the phone and call a CEO, but I may have a CEO here who just wants to talk to a CEO. What is a good way for everybody to get a hold of you?
So I'm on LinkedIn, Ellen Faulkner. I'm also ellen at lewiscommunications.com. Our website is lewiscommunications.com. I'm on LinkedIn and email all the time. So available and love to have conversations with people. We love to grow businesses and get in the middle of of their bit of people's business in order to really, we like to say we like to change our client's business at pivotal moments in their history. So when you're searching and looking and trying to figure out what's next, that's where we love to jump in and help things happen.
Marketing, communicating with your target market, sometimes you don't even know what that is, is such a hard thing for a lot of companies because they're just challenged with, they think they know who their target market is, right? maybe that's not really who it is. And sometimes it takes that third person to be able to figure that out. So I do think that that's kind of an interesting, that's why I want them to be able to get ahold of you and look at it. Lewis, guys, by the way, is spelled L-E-W-I-S for Lewis Communication, because I know you can spell Lewis a couple of different ways. Ellen, I have had so much fun getting to visit with you today and know a little bit more about you and your wonderful company. Just very exciting that what you guys are, the growth you guys have had and the growth that you're striving with the clients that you work with. It's just impressive. And congratulations on your role as CEO. I know that's exciting too and impressive. Very, very impressive. So just thank you so much for joining me today, everyone. This is Ellen Faulkner with Lewis Communications. That's lewiscommunications.com. Make sure you guys like and subscribe to This Is Everything Is Up With Tamara. Everyone have a great week. Thanks, Ellen. Thank you, Tamara. Have a great day.
Thanks, you too.
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