In episode 62 of Everything is Up, Tammera Hollerich interviews Charles Fry, founder of CODE Éxitos, a company with a unique approach to building digital products and fostering a positive work environment. Charles shares insights into the company's dual purpose of commercial success and social impact.
Tune in to learn more about their journey and the impact they're making in the tech industry.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:04:35] AI-powered game for children.
[00:04:46] Puppet robot teaching kids creativity.
[00:09:43] Social impact.
[00:15:39] The power of in-person interaction.
[00:21:04] Companies as commercial communities.
[00:23:24] Work Motivation
[00:29:03] Teaching younger workers post-pandemic.
[00:34:35] Remote work challenges and solutions.
[00:36:01] Building a company for longevity.
[00:40:56] Reaching out to Charles Fry.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Tammera Hollerich
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TammeraHollerich
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammerahollerich/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thollerich/
Charles Fry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-c-fry/
Email: carlos@codexitos.com
WEBSITES
Everything Is Up: https://everything-is-up.simplecast.com/
Tammera Hollerich: https://tammerahollerich.com/
CODE Éxitos: https://codexitos.com/
Welcome to everything is up with Tamara. Joining me today is Charles Fry with code and I hope I'm present by pronouncing this correctly. Code Exodus.
Tammera Hollerich
Pretty good.
Charles Fry
Exodus or is it Exodus? Exodus. Perfect. And actually you are actually joining us from Honduras today.
Tammera Hollerich
I am. That's right. That's what's out my window. Not a fake background. It's really out my window.
Charles Fry
It is so beautiful. I'm like, wow. OK, so let's talk code exodus and give us a little lay of the land about what you guys do.
Sure, happy to do it. It's great to be here, by the way. I've enjoyed listening to the podcast. I went back to episode one, so I don't know what that's like as a creator if you go back and listen to your first podcast.
But it's a little weird to hear it, just so you know.
I bet it is, but you did a great job and you're on, you know, you're almost to 100 now, so that's great. So I'm happy to be here. Codexitos is One way I describe it is that it's really a company with two purposes. Is it perp-eye? No, it wouldn't be perp-eye. But we have two things that we were focused on here. And our principal commercial reason for existing is that we work with entrepreneurs and innovators, a lot sometimes corporate innovation teams, to help them build digital products, mostly software, some hardware products, but that's what we do. So if you look at the full circle of what it takes to go from having an idea on the whiteboard to having a product that's out in the market supporting customers, We have professionals in the US and in Latin America that take on all the different phases of that. And so that's what we do. We build products and that's our commercial purpose. And then the second thing that we do is we're a certified B corporation. So we're what's known as a public benefit corporation. And what that means is while we're doing our commercial effort and we're you know, we're doing things that our clients need. We're also shaping our business so that we maximize the public benefit and the benefit to our employees as well. So that encompasses treating our workers well, having positive environmental impact, and then having positive impact on the communities where we work. So those are what, that's what we do.
Okay, so you guys have multiple locations. I know you live in Austin, correct?
Yeah, I do most of the time. And my wife and I also live here in San Pedro Sula, Honduras. So we have a place here. And then, but we do have other offices. So we have two offices in Latin America and a third one being planned for 2025. And then we have our headquarters in Austin. And then we have a team up quasi virtual team up in the Detroit Ann Arbor area.
Oh, that I did not find. So that's interesting. So you guys are kind of spread out. And in this digital world that y'all are in, um, Give me an example, like is there a product that's on the market that you guys helped to develop that we would all know about?
Let's see, that's always tough. A lot of our clients have been B2B clients who have, they've been building what we would call a SaaS platform. We do have a product out that's in its soft launch stage, and it's kind of fun. It's a game, it's an AI-powered game for children, and it's based on a public television character called Wimee, W-I-M-E-E. And that's a product that's just been released. But if you go to YouTube and you look up Wimmy, you'll see the puppet show. Wimmy is a puppet robot that, like I mentioned, has been on PBS for three seasons. And Wimmy is all about teaching kids, early learners, to go from being consumers of content to being creators of content. So he teaches words and images and drawings and all that kind of stuff. It's a lot of fun. And so we've we've just created and launched a game that incorporates the character. And it's driven by a child safe AI engine so kids can actually talk to the game character and they can talk to the game character and he talks back. So it's okay.
That's very cool. Okay. So yeah, I was trying to kind of get a feel for when you talk about software development, I'm like, I'm thinking games. I, when I was on your website, I, you know, there's some AI content on there. So I was thinking AI, Okay, so let's pivot a minute. So I'm intrigued by how you take a company, right, global companies, right, not always the easiest to expand globally. How did you guys make that launch and end up in Latin America?
Yeah. OK, let me try to unpack that as succinctly as possible. So I've been a tech guy for decades. My sort of before the Internet existed, not even before it was cool, but before it existed, I was doing tech work. And so I was in Austin, Texas. I've done a number of venture capital-backed companies. We were wrapping up a VC-backed company that was in Austin. It was being sold. It's not owned by a company in Canada. And I was trying to decide what I wanted to do next. And what I wanted to do next didn't involve another venture capital-based company. I've done that three times and just didn't want to do it anymore. And I became really focused on doing something that had a positive social impact. And so I was casting around for entrepreneurial ideas, something that I was going to do next. And I knew that I wanted to not have outside equity investors because you have to meet their expectations. And that's reasonable. I knew that I wanted to have positive social impact. And I've had a long personal history with Central America and Honduras in particular. I've been in and around the country for about 15 years. And what I discovered is there were a lot of young professionals in this area who were graduating university with degrees in international business or computer science, engineering, electrical engineering. And the local economy really didn't have great job opportunities for them. Well, you know, if you live in Austin, Texas for very long, you know that people are clamoring for talented software engineers and web designers and creators of all sorts. And I thought, well, I have a Rolodex full of thousands of people who want software engineers and related skills. And I'm a two-hour flight. It takes two hours on the plane from Houston to get here. So it's a simple flight. I can get to my office here in Honduras from Houston faster than I can get to San Francisco and Silicon Valley. Wow. Yeah. So you put that together and my big insight was I looked at a map and I said, you know what, I think this is a good place to start to hire young ambitious people that are brilliant and connect them with opportunity that's really coming out of the US. And so that was the formula that got me to here. And I, one of the early things, I know you talk a lot to a lot of entrepreneurs about their journeys and, um, I told my wife this was going to be my retirement business. She's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, I don't I don't really want to retire. I don't call for anything. I don't know what I would do. I love I love what I do. I'm just going to do this to stay busy and. you know, we're at about 100 employees now and we continue to grow. And every once in a while, she's like, where's the retirement part coming to all of this? Because like, when does this stop? And I'm like, I've got a plan for that, too. But I got a little more gas in me. So that's how the company started. And that's been and the team has been fantastic. And we've had a lot of fun.
You know, as you're talking, I'm thinking social impact. Right. You're taking. Yeah. I mean, you hit both goals, you were, you know, able to hit that social impact, and be able to grow globally, I was like, it's impressive. You know, we here in the US, we hear a lot about, you know, you go to the Philippines and hire great talent out of the Philippines. And it's not quite as expensive, you know, and I'm thinking about all of these, like you said, right, really brilliant, young, hungry, you know, individuals who desperately need an opportunity. And, you know, I think they always look to the US. And they think that's the land of opportunity. We've only been saying it for 200 years, this is the land of opportunity, you know, so to actually meet and get to to interact with a CEO, who isn't just talking it right, you're, you're practicing it, but you're practicing it literally live on the ground. So it's not a hearsay. Like, you know, that these are the things that are going on, talking to other CEOs, what would you tell other CEOs about seeking this talent outside of the US?
OK. Well, you're right, by the way, about the Philippines in the tech industry. India has a long history of being a global provider of talent. Latin America is really starting to emerge as a talent pool that U.S. companies can tap into. And Wow. Advice for CEOs. Are we talking about big, big company CEOs or smaller, smaller?
Because I think a lot of times, you know, even your smaller, you know, midsize companies, um, you know, we have a talent pool problem here in the U S right now. And I know a lot of them are like going, How are we going to run these companies, we, we need talent, we need bright talent, we need, you know, hungry talent. And they didn't call it the great resignation for nothing. And so, you know, CEOs are really struggling with, you know, how do we do this, you're doing it. So I know you can probably shed some light on it for us.
Sure. I appreciate the question and if we don't cover something specifically and you want to follow up or your listeners want to follow up, I'm happy to talk about this. Well, I think that What you can't forget is there's still a human component that's necessary in it. You can't really just package it up and ship it off in an email or in a Slack message and expect it to work. Our clients that engage our teams here We suggest to them that at least once a year, maybe twice a year, just some in-person time is really, really valuable. Now, over my career, I've sourced work I added it up one time, and I think I came up with $50 or $60 million of sourced work globally over a 20-some year span. Again, this is not uncommon for tech companies. And I've traveled, I've had a lot of fun traveling all over, but places like the Philippines or India are just really hard to get to. It's expensive. It's time consuming. The time zones are flipped upside down. There's, there's a lot of ick that, and it's not about the people. It's just, it's just a burden of having a personal relationship. So that's part of why I started looking at Latin America in addition to my own personal affinity for the region. It's it is literally a two hour and 15 minute flight from from Houston Bush Intercontinental Airport. Yeah. And so I am next back. In fact, next week, one of one of our partners is flying down. They're going to fly down on Monday. We have two days of meetings and he'll be home for dinner on Wednesday. And you can't do that in a lot of places. And so it makes it accessible. And you can check the in-person box.
And I think that's important. And I'm really glad that you led with that, that there's a human element here. We have become so disconnected because of tech. It makes it easy to be disconnected. You can send an email, you can, I mean, yes, you can dump on a Zoom call and somewhat quasi be there, but it is truly not the same as looking someone face to face. I have a client and this very thing have I mean, just even here in the US, we have, you know, a partner that's in Baltimore, we're in Fort Worth. And he literally said, we need to go to Baltimore. And I said, we can get on as he was like, there is nothing better than shaking a hand and looking someone in the eye. Because you no longer he goes, we have forgotten that you can no longer be distracted. You can't, you know, turn off the video and go do something else. He said, so, no, we're going. I said, got it. Let's go. Because we are still humans.
That's right. That's right.
And we need to be connected.
Yeah. And my experience has been, the experience I've collected on this topic is that two or three days of in-person interaction with whoever you're working with can carry you at least six months.
I was thinking that, yeah.
And we're sort of playing with this timeline. Now, our teams here in Latin America are tremendously grateful for the opportunity to interact with our clients and our prospects directly. And I think for them, the effect is much higher, much larger. And, you know, that's, that's a good thing.
I was gonna say, you probably get a higher quality of output from those individuals, because of the gratitude attitude, and the, you know, just being able to look at that client that they're working for the partners that they're working for, and know that they weren't an afterthought, like, oh, this is a zoom meeting I have to be on, like they took the time to come down here to meet with us. Yeah, I think that holds a ton of water. I really think that that holds. That is impactful.
Yeah, we think so. And we see it every day. And it's a lot of fun. It makes it makes up for, you know, all the junky parts of business that you have to go through that's, you know, it's inherent in any business, but you always look for those rewards. And the human-facing rewards are really, really high. And our clients are, they love our teams.
I mean, I would think that you would get more engagement out of the client wanting to be more involved if they know that team personally.
Yeah, I think that's probably true in the majority. Not always. I mean, we have clients who are, you know, transactional, I guess you would call it. Maybe it's a necessity of their business. I mean, and I think people people conduct themselves, people have different styles in business. Some people are naturally transactional and it's like, Hey, I don't really want to talk about your, your pet or your kids or your life. I'd rather just have you finish this slide deck. And that's okay. That's not the kind of people we are. And so, um, you know, we don't want to get all up inside people's personal business, but we've tried, We haven't tried. We're very deliberate in sensing that if a client or a prospect has a transactional view of their business, then we're probably not the right fit for them. And so we try to make sure that we match our company personality with the client's approach to their business, if that makes sense.
That's such a smart move because you end up with longer term relationships when you are not opposing each other in ideology or in culture, right? that just brings longevity. And that's such a smart approach. Completely such a smart approach. So you are a avid reader. I hear you, you read about 20 books a year ish. Yeah. And you're, and you're like, you're currently building like an essential library for your team, like for the office and team. Um, Let's talk about some of the books that you think, you know, teams should be reading or, you know, that build a culture you know, that build a good culture. I mean, we have seen over the years, cultures fall apart. We can talk and Ron, we can like we can talk about all kinds of companies that have failed miserably. And that happens to the culture too. So, um, reading love, love, love it. Because this is one of the questions I ask all of, you know, my guests on the show, I'm like, so what are you reading? I'm intrigued by what we read, because we have gotten as a society, I will say I am an automobile university girl, because sometimes I don't have all the time in the world to read because I did decide here in the last year or so to go back and do my master's. And so I am
reading text but like so but good books um you know the good ones so give us your take on some really good reads for the teams uh okay so it's rooted in a personal belief and my personal belief is that companies are nothing more than uh a commercial community right and but and by that i mean we don't We don't pick our, I guess we do pick our companies. That's a conscious decision. And so I'm a big believer, I'm a complete believer in individualism and individual responsibility and accountability and all of that kind of stuff. And so- Ownership, yes. And ownership. So in my thesis, a company can never be much more than the collective output of the individuals. So here at Codex Itos, and in previous companies that I've led and been part of, they're all very focused on individual improvement and accountability. I'm kind of looking like over on my bookshelf here, number one, we've been working on with our leadership team is Atomic Habits.
Nice. That's a great book. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And we present it in a way where we say, listen, A lot of this book applies to your personal life if you wanted to, but that's your business and you figure that part out. But your work habits can be improved by following these principles. And so, you know, the light bulb goes off for most people. They're like, wow, I could use this at home too with my kids or my spouse or myself or whatever. I'm like, yep, but that's not what we're paying for. You know, if you want to lose weight, go to the gym, stop smoking, all that's great, good on you. But we really want you to hit your product, you know, your deadlines and all that kind of stuff. And so Atomic Habits and books like that are the beginning. Here, sorry if this is confusing people, but this is our Mission, Vision and Values. I think they're on the website. This happens to be in Spanish, so that probably didn't help a whole lot of people. Those are taken directly from a book called Drive by Daniel Pink, and that book has been out for quite a while. I think Daniel Pink is a really interesting writer. He's a funny guy. I recommend his podcast and his videos, but in Drive, he He spent quite a bit of time figuring out what motivates people intrinsically, and he concluded in his book that there were three things that people wanted in their work. They wanted to have a sense of mastery, a sense of autonomy, and a sense of purpose. three of our four values, thank you, Daniel Pink, are ripped straight from that book. It's mastery, autonomy, and purpose. And then the fourth value that we have, I tacked on mostly to keep reminding myself, and that value is La Vida Plena, which roughly would equate to live your best life or live a complete life. And being a product of the tech startup go-go days all the way back into the first dot-com boom, spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley. It's really an unbalanced and unhealthy lifestyle in a lot of ways. And part of why this is my retirement, the end of my career is that I'm trying to live a more integrated and balanced life. And I want, I want the new generation of workers. I mean, we have a lot of workers that are younger than my oldest kids. So it it's a lot like being on a university campus or fresh off of the university campus. And they bring a different perspective than than my generation had when we were when we were that age. Right. There's the there's the dad signal right there. And I think it's interesting and they think about they think about an integrated life. And that's a good thing.
Yeah. So work life balance, I hear more. I mean, I've had employees now for 28 years or so. And conversations did not center around work life balance. 20 years ago. But more, I mean, one of the conversations that we have now, and my staff is an all female staff, most of them have kids. So it is, you're a plate of spaghetti. Like I tell them that all the time, you are a plate of spaghetti. As long as our clients are taken care of, I don't care. Right? Take care of all of it, but you're spaghetti. We mean, she's all meshed up on the plate together. And if that's a phone call while you're typing an email and you're directing kids, so be it. But there, you know, this morning, unbelievable situation. I got a call from one of the ladies here. Her 17 year old son's car had been stolen right out of their driveway. And so it was gotta take care of this. I'm like, sure. Let me know. Keep me posted. Hope everything's okay. If there's anything I can do, let me know. And I took off to McKinney. So, I mean, it was like. we got this and that integration, right? It's the how do you and I think that's why that great resignation really did happen is they went home for a year and a half. And they were like, well, I can do this here and this year. Now, is it always the most productive? No, not always right. But they figured out that those of us that, you know, as I've been told by the 20 year olds in my office, you're, you're doing it the hard way. Okay. If you say so, like, I'm doing it the hard way. But it got me here, right? So it was what we knew. And so they are just like, one of them tells me all the time, thank you so much for respecting work life balance. I'm like, you know, as long as the clients are taken care of, right? And you've got, you know, great quality work, it's easy, it's really easy. And I think CEOs, if they figure that out, that it is that, you know, I do know a lot of people are pulling people back from home because it wasn't as productive. And so that's why I was curious what books you have, you know, the team reading and what you guys have going on. And can you you've got, you've got stateside, you've got Latin America, I mean, you, and those are very different cultures. Yeah, yeah, they are. Yeah, they're very different. Yeah, as you know, right.
But I don't I don't think I don't think that I wouldn't draw the line that way as much as I would generationally.
Yeah, I do think that's true.
And I think that I've had this creepy thought that I can't shake. By the way, one of the other books I read this weekend, I took a four-day weekend and I read four books. That's what I did for my four-day weekend. Beautiful. And one of them was a book called Office Shock. And I can't really say that I thought it was well written. I thought there were some really good ideas in it. But it seemed like it seemed like I read the same thing four times by the time I got to the end of the book. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't nodding off. But, you know, it was one of those books where I felt like it make a great couple chapters and they work to make it a whole book. But that that's maybe a little more judgment than I should put to it. But I like the core ideas. And one of the core ideas that. I started to think about was on this younger generation of workers, we haven't really taught them anything. What we did was when the pandemic happened, everybody went home and we should keep working. But there's a whole slice of young professionals who didn't know how to work when we sent them home and then we just kind of griped because they weren't working hard enough or the way we did or whatever you want to sort of you look through that lens and so now we're starting to explore we're a flex environment and our current policy is that when you get a job here at Codex Ecos You're expected to be in the office five days a week for the first six months. And at your six-month review, your manager can recommend you, if they want to, they can recommend that you get one flex day. And then at your annual review, they can recommend a second flex day. But what we're also starting to do is we're starting to look into just where are people supposedly working remotely? Do they have a desk? Do they have a quiet setting? Do they have fast internet? And oh, by the way, if they have all of those things and the television's not sitting right next to their laptop, then we start to, then I've started to think about, okay, well, what do we teach them about how to work? Because 20 years ago, when you went to your job, you didn't necessarily like the fact that you drove in every day, whether it was raining or snowing or traffic was good or bad, it was just an obligation. And so the job sort of imprinted habits and ethics on us because we didn't have a choice. So now we've said, oh, you can work from home, but we're not going to really give you any structure to what's expected. So why should we get mad if they don't answer the email right away or if they are watching the soccer game while they're writing code or whatever the case may be? I don't know. I've got a lot to pick apart there. I'm not really
Yeah, you know, it's an interesting thought process, though, because the pandemic happened so quickly. And, you know, everybody, it was go home. I'll call you basically, right? And I'll let you know. Well, then, you know, a couple of days goes by and everybody's like, okay, how do we pivot as that term went, right? We've got a pivot. What does this pivot look like? Well, it, and I really to no one's fault at all. I think everybody truly did the best they could with the circumstances thrown at them so that nobody had time to think it through. nobody had time to go okay now what so it is a very interesting thought process because now in hindsight you're right it was so fast and it was by flying by the seat of our pants i mean literally everybody was just like flying by the seat of the pants and then and then everybody was You're right, everybody griped. It's like, but I can see what you're saying. You know, I'm thinking I didn't have remote employees, we were essential. So we just didn't have that remote. But every time I talked with colleagues, it was the same thing. It's, you know, they don't answer, or the emails aren't being responded to, or, you know, I'm in a Zoom call. There's no professionalism in the Zoom call. Maybe from like here up, but, you know, maybe they didn't have their hair done or their makeup on or whatever the case was. So to your point, we literally didn't teach them anything. Nobody said these are the rules for working at home.
Right. And so think about think about the Think about us. Right. I'm going to I'm going to say I'm older than you, but think about us. Right. So when we went home for the pandemic to make it work, we took an accumulation of habits. And I saw plenty of my colleagues that they had their desk at home and it looked like their mini office. So, of course, they had those habits established. But what habits would a 25-year-old have to take home? I mean, when I was 25, I was lucky to make it to work every day on time, just like they are now. Nothing's changed, right? And so we sent them home with the same vague instructions of work from home. And they're like, I'm the least capable. They don't think that. They don't have that self-awareness. because who would? You don't know what you don't know. So I'm starting to rethink this whole flex thing not as a, I don't know what I'm thinking about it as. I think there's some obligation that employers are going to have to understand that we have, just like we teach employees if they were coming into the office, we have to teach them that we don't want them to come into the office. And the employees are going to have to learn that because This is the gap we've created, is they're less aware of the two-way street of the employment equation.
Yeah, well, they have no reference point, honestly, because they haven't had enough life experience in the workforce to have that reference point to be able to go forward, to your point, right?
And we have employees that graduated university remotely.
Yeah, I mean, I'm doing my master's remote, so yeah.
obviously your master's is based on all the preceding work that you've accumulated. So these were suddenly 20 and 21 year olds that were finishing classes via Zoom calls. I hired people via Zoom.
Yeah, I did too.
And you're like, okay, well, you know, good luck. You try to be productive. So anyhow, it's a long way from what I'm reading, but Office Shock is an interesting, it's a futurist's view of what work is like in the 25 year future. And that is interesting to me because one of the principles we have at Codex Edos is that we think about the company as a hundred year company. And so when I, again, sort of founding DNA, I wanted to be a social benefit company, but we're not looking, we're not building it to sell it. We're not building it to do an IPO or be a unicorn. So I said, well, what other challenge would there be? And I came up with the idea of, I was intrigued by companies that said, Oh, we're celebrating our 110th anniversary. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, what if, what if you intentionally set out to last a hundred years? And sure enough, you start to think about things differently.
Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, think about it. We literally just had Y2K 25 years ago. I mean, that fast and 25 years is here. And so I don't know that that's just that far off, actually, as a futuristic thought, actually, because no, that's right here. I mean, it's going to be here before you know it.
Look, 25 years ago, no one had a smartphone. Actually, I don't think 20 years ago anyone had a smartphone. And now, I don't know, seven billion people in the world have them. So, you know, if you think back to the Motorola flip phone or the bag phone that I had in my car that weighed a ton and, you know, I remember I paid, I paid a dollar a minute for cell phone service and that included people calling you. So like mom would call me and I'm like, hey mom, can you make it fast? Cause this is costing me a buck a minute. They should not have treated my mom that way. Sorry, mom. So, you know, that's a 25-year arc. And then when you try to look forward 25 years, it gets to be an interesting challenge to say, where do I think the company's going to be? And how do I map that backwards? How do I wind that back to what I do? this year and next year to take incremental steps that way.
That's such a thought leader perspective. I love that because that is putting that thought leadership out there. You had said that one of the questions that I ask is what would someone find interesting about you or would be surprised to learn about you. Now, I'm not surprised about this now that I've had a chance to visit with you and talk with you. But you said people are generally surprised that you are as open to new ideas as you are. What makes you say that? What brought that thought to mind?
It's It's hard and I notice that it gets harder as I get older to be open to change. I sometimes frequently I tell the team here that my belief is that the single hardest thing for any person to do is change.
Absolutely.
And we just don't like it. It's not fun. And so I noticed, I'm 60 now, and so I noticed that as I get older, I find myself falling into that trap of just being frustrated by it. And so I just like exercising and eating right. For me, it's a habit to say, okay, let's make decisions a little more slowly here. Let's be open to some ideas. Let's take some controlled risk. And I can't say that I'm great at it or that I love it, but I'm generally more willing now than I was 25 years ago to sit back and entertain a radically different perspective on something.
Yeah, that's very interesting. I just said to my team just today, you cannot let me be the cog in the wheel. In other words, like, if we need progress, and I'm stalling, like, I have to know that I am now the cog in the wheel. And you know, that's hard for employees to do to go, like, you're stalling us because you are not as open to like you said, the older you get, you know, the less risk I want to take necessarily, like you said, controlled risk, like, I like, I'm a control freak, so I like that controlled risk idea. So, I mean, I found it very interesting that, you know, you said there would probably be a little surprised that I'm as open as I am. So I love that. And, you know, on that note, Charles, also aka everybody also known as Carlos, and Charles, and you have been such a delight. Thank you for spending time and sharing your wisdom with us here at everything is up. And what is the best way for our listeners to reach out to you?
I'm on LinkedIn, so Charles Fry on LinkedIn. You can email me, Carlos at CodexDos.com. I think you have the contact information. Feel free to share it. You know, everyone's interesting if you give them the chance. So I love meeting interesting people. And so they're welcome to reach me through all the digital channels.
Well, perfect. Thank you again. All right, everyone, make sure you guys like and share the episode with Charles Fry with Codexidos. Thank you again so much, Charles. This has been great information and you have been such a delight. It was my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. All right, everybody. This is everything is up with Tamara and Charles. Everyone have a great week. Thanks again, Charles. All right.
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