In episode 63 of Everything is Up, Tammera Hollerich interviews Michelle Jaeger, the President and CEO of Das Health, to discuss the company's mission to revolutionize the healthcare industry. Michelle shares insights into the challenges and opportunities in the healthcare landscape, especially focusing on senior care and technology advancements.
Tune in as they delve into the importance of self-care, the impact of technology in healthcare, and the value of having a personal board of directors.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:01:03] Changing the Healthcare Landscape.
[00:08:04] Advancement in AI in healthcare.
[00:11:20] Slow payment issues in healthcare.
[00:13:41] Book club discussion on deception.
[00:17:20] Self-care and career growth.
[00:22:24] Pushing boundaries for growth.
[00:27:30] Personal board of directors.
[00:30:27] Passion for Changing Healthcare Systems.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Tammera Hollerich
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TammeraHollerich
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammerahollerich/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thollerich/
Michelle Jaeger
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-jaeger-185a472/
WEBSITES
Everything Is Up: https://everything-is-up.simplecast.com/
Tammera Hollerich: https://tammerahollerich.com/
DAS Health: https://dashealth.com/
Welcome to everything is up a podcast about the real life stories of people who have created extraordinary levels of success These are conversations with people who are constantly striving to take things to the next level And now here's your host
Welcome to everything is up with Tammera and today joining me and I'm like very excited is Michelle Jager, the president and CEO of Doss Health. Talk to us a little bit, Michelle, thank you so much for joining me for starters and talk to us a little bit about Doss Health.
Tammera Hollerich
Yeah, so first of all, Tammera, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to have a discussion with you today. I think, you know, the work that you do is, is important. And, you know, it, it really helps all of us and benefits us as just as good humans. So thank you. So, DAS Health is, we are in the backbone of many, many medical providers and specialty groups out there. So, what we really strive to do is change, we are not, none of us are really clinicians here at DAS Health. So we use our business talents to really improve the healthcare experience for patients. And what that really means in simple terms is we do everything from consulting and back office functions for organizations, all the way to supporting the whole IT infrastructure for an organization. or hosting their medical data and records or helping them with interfaces and interoperability. We do cybersecurity services for organizations. So really, we are a group of people that are extremely passionate about changing the healthcare landscape in the way that any way that we can that's outside the clinical. so that the clinicians can really do what they do best, which is provide care to our patients. And we're all a patient at the end of the day.
Michelle Jaeger
Oh, well, yeah, even the clinicians are patients at some point, you know, and so, you know, I don't know how much you know. And I know our listeners know I have multiple businesses. And one of those businesses is I do benefit consulting, and I've been doing it for a little bit more than 25 years. So with all your major carriers, and I work in the self funding world. So I work, there are days when I pick up the phone, and I'm calling the provider's office and saying, Hey, look, we want to negotiate. So When we start talking about the healthcare system and improving that patient experience, I think there are so many companies, individuals that really do understand one, it's complicated, it's complex, and it's very convoluted. So to the average consumer or to the patient, it's frustrating. And so anything that can happen to make that a better experience, as I was reading through DS Health, I was like, okay, this is like right up the wheelhouse, because it is, it's a, it is a difficult challenge that you guys are taking on. I read that you came from UnitedHealthcare and OptumRx. So you kind of come from that big carrier side of things. How did that prep you for this position?
Yeah, so that's a really good question. And one I'm asked quite, quite often, because it was a really change, a big change for me. So I did start in healthcare more years than I care to admit, but I did get my start in PBM experience, originally with Medco, and was an account manager there. really learned a lot about the healthcare landscape as it related to pharmacy benefit management. My big client when I was at Medco was United Healthcare. So that's how I had my inroad and started my career there. And really, I was in their Medicare Advantage product team. I led their Medicare Advantage product line when I was at United. I then moved over to OptumRx because I did have pharmacy experience. Yeah, and I led a very large team of client facing individuals that really, you know, serve the broader market. And then my last position there was really an international growth position. And I was in South America quite often helping them with their growth agenda and their markets, because, you know, it does have not only insurance, but also some hospital business in South America. So I think, you know, really that experience helped me understand the complexity of the system as a whole. And surprisingly, even though the Brazil and South American landscape is very different, there are a lot of the same problems that plague health care, no matter where you go in the world. Yeah. And so it just it really prepped me for the complexities, the fragmented pieces of the system that exist, and help me think about it as I was moving into a more technology based role, right? Where are there places where, I mean, we're not going to change the entire infrastructure, you know, that that's a much larger undertaking, but we certainly can simplify it and make it a more reliable system.
Well, that would be, you know, is thinking of DAS health from a technology standpoint and knowing that we went to electronic medical records several years ago with the understanding that that was going to make it where everything seemed like it was going to be in one place, like all your medical records are going to be in one place. that relies on human data entry as well. And so I there's still this disconnect. When you said this, you know, this whole big health care system, I tell our team here, I'm like, guys, look, what we are trying to undertake is literally like trying to turn the Titanic two minutes before it hits the ice I'm like, because it is such a beast in front of us. I'm like, you know, but one bite at a time, like, you do find these tremendous companies like DAS Health, and you find, you know, transparent PBMs, like you find all of these incredible individuals who see the problem, who are just like a sliver of kind of fixing it. But when you look at the technology, you know, I've been an advisor, since I think I've had I had my insurance license in 92. Now I'll tell you guys, now I'm aging myself. But okay, so I've had it a really long time. We did not actually have a enrollment platform that integrated anywhere until about five or six years ago. So doing an enrollment you did. And even today, Blue Cross United Healthcare, they have their own platforms, but we can't go do a universal enrollment and have any kind of API integration, not even a not even a 365 like or 360 like wheelhouse so that changes made in one system will automatically shift everybody can work seamle there's a long way to go I think you guys have jo of time. Agreed. Yeah. I at that landscape, what
So I do see that there's going to continue to be just complete advancement. I mean, I think we have only just first of all, I think we're kind of we aren't kind of we are floundering a little bit in AI, like trying to figure out what does it really mean and where is it going to be most effective and applicable in terms of bringing down health care costs now? we're not putting another layer in there or you know something that is going to make it even more complex right i think we're still grappling a little bit with that like you know testing places where it's really going to streamline care and it's really going to advance like there are places where it's doing really good work right now like um in imaging right yeah I can pick out things in imaging that the human eye or technician at least they go in and verify but it can be done a lot faster right that's a great example but I think there are so many other places that it can apply to your point just in even fundamental administrative tasks that, you know, it can really advance us and make things a lot faster and more streamlined. So I think we're going to see a lot of advancement there, a lot more automation, a lot more precision in medicine too, and a lot more precision in terms of just streamlining billing and advancement. Now, what the government's going to decide to do with health care, that is anybody's guess, right? And that could change the entire landscape. But I do think from a technology standpoint, you know, we're just going to continue to see advancements. And I think we're going to figure out the right path for AI over that time.
You know, that's a great that is a great. Really, when you think about how fast technology moves, And I mean, it seems like AI was a new, like concept for most of us, I would say the mass majority of AI was a new concept, like a year ago. And now all of a sudden, it's like every other conversation, somebody's going AI or AI or AI was like, Oh, my gosh. So I was hoping you would bring that up. Because that, to me, I think allows for there to be some streamlining. Like I was worried, like when you said not to add another layer because that my brain actually went to, well, here we go. We're just going to add another sliver of this pie into the pie wheel. And it's just already such a hot mess. Nobody can spin the wheel even because it's so much, but you're thinking that AI will help with the streamlining.
I really do. I believe like, and I think to your point, you can't boil the ocean with it, right? It's going to have to be, there's going to be places where a particular company in it, or it could be a startup, it could be somebody very established, right, that picks a process. or something that is very broken. And again, it could be an administrative piece that has been very burdensome. That's going to make a huge impact. It is going to reduce overhead for organizations, for a physician group, and it's going to be very impactful. But I think it's going to be a lot of little things that are going to really add up over time.
Yeah. The one thing I hear the most probably grumbling and it is an administrative side of it is that it takes the carriers far too long to play to pay the providers that I mean, that disconnect. I mean, if any one of these technology companies like can just tackle that, that would help. I mean, I was looking at a lag time the other day with blue and the lag time was like nine months. nine months on one group. And the more I look at it, the more I'm thinking, well, no wonder the providers are struggling to keep afloat.
No, hypothetically, right, that is something AI should, over time, be able to learn and know, right? They should understand the algorithm in which what is necessary, you know, to have a claim paid, right? And what are those follow-up pieces of information should know that over time and be able to get that condensed. It may not be, you know, a day, but it certainly shouldn't be nine months, right? So that's, yeah.
That's exciting. Okay, so let's pivot a little bit because we I mean, listeners, they we could get on health care and stay on health care for 20 years. Like it's just a little crazy. So but you married kids? Yes.
Yes, I am married. I'm going to be celebrating 25 years actually in October this year. Thank you.
Congratulations. I have five kids and two dogs. See girl, after my own heart, I have dogs and chickens. So, you know, everybody laughs. They're like dogs and chickens. I'm like, that's right. Chickens are on my list. No, Hey, I got a hundred. I can pass them off. So, um, one of your favorite pastimes is to watch your son play baseball.
Yeah, I do. I mean, he's, that's a really fun sport, you know, to watch. Um, and I didn't grow up with it. I grew up in Wisconsin. So hockey was the big sport there. Yeah. And so my husband really, you know, got me into baseball. And then when my son started playing it, right, that's, that's, that was the, you know, kind of ultimate. That's right. That's the driver there. Um, but other things, you know, um, you know, I'm really fortunate. I live in Florida, so I've got access to beaches and, you know, that's, that water piece is very therapeutic, you know, I mean, big book reader, I've got book club tonight. In fact, um, fun.
Yeah. What book are you guys reading right now?
so we read um yellow face so it's a really kind of provocative novel around somebody who was friends with another um novelist and that novelist passed away and she actually stole her work and it's all about how kind of social media kind of you know can really advance either rumors or truth and uh about kind of friendships and the you know the fragile nature of it and deception and yeah it was it was a really interesting one yeah that's that's interesting um well i as you're talking i'm thinking i just told my father right who thinks that everything on facebook is gospel
I'm like, Dad, where did you hear that? I heard he calls and he goes, did you know Sylvester still loved dad? I go, that I would have heard. Where did you learn that? He goes, on Facebook. And I said, okay, Facebook is entertainment only, dad. It's not gospel, right? But it's social media. It has definitely brought a completely different element to our culture. And I think- globally. Like, I think every society on this planet, if they have internet access at all, are dealing with what that looks like in their culture. It's hard on our younger folks. It's, you know, they don't know what to believe and what not to believe and yet, and it sucks them in algorithms, No, exactly. I mean, so it's a tough, tough spot. So that's a that's a book I'm going to have to go look at.
So it's it's it's really fascinating. It really is. It was not my usual read, but that's the tip. That's the reason why you are in a book club, right? Yeah.
Read some different things. Yeah. Well, I love it. OK, so A lot of reading your beach girl again, after my own beaches were like golden here. But when you have a chance to decompress some, which I'm sure is incredibly rare in your position, because I have this feeling you are bombarded all the time with questions. But when you do have some of that downtime, where does your mind go?
So, okay, a couple things. So I think, and it took me a while to learn this, but it's really, really, and I tell my team this a lot. I don't think decompressing is like a moment or something you have to like get to this breaking point for you or it shouldn't be okay. So I do try to start my day like today I started it with like a really good workout. I think that's really, it's important that you have some self care every day. So it could be a walk, some time with your dog, a really hard workout, you know, sitting down with the paper with your with coffee in the morning, you know, whatever that might be. And I try to, my team and I, we go around every Monday, we have, you know, a senior meeting. And I asked them to always talk about, you know, one really positive personal thing, one positive business thing. And I'm always hopeful that that personal thing is something that they did to take care of themselves. Like so, I can't say that there's any one thing, you know, or where my mind really goes, but I try to do something every day to take care of me because if you don't, you're not really that good for everybody else that has to lean into you.
Yeah, it does. And as busy as you get and are in the position that you have, that self-care, have you always been that way or is that something that has come over time?
No, I've not always been that way. I wish I could say, Oh, I just knew it. You know, I, you know, my career took off, you know, well, I mean, not super fast, but you know, it built over time. And as I got more and more sucked into, you know, kind of what I was doing and where I was going, I lost a little track of that. And I think, you know, I have to say my husband was really good about kind of calling me out on that. Like, you're not really here when you're here. Yeah. That's a pretty powerful statement for somebody to say to you. And I wish I could say he he only had to say it once and like, wow, it was magic. And I figured it out. It took me some time to learn.
Yeah, that's that's rough. I mean, you are you are obviously not alone. And I think everyone whose career has taken off, I mean, Because you do get sucked in. And when you're sucked in, you can't see it. But everybody else around you sees Yes, right. And it's like these, you know, I, I am told on a regular basis, I will be one of those that will be at your funeral crying, can you please pay attention to me. And, you know, that is that, like you said, that's, that's a powerful statement. It's like, priorities are in the wrong place. And it's not intentional, like it's right, purely by accident, or it's by happenstance is probably a better term for it, that the priorities get a little shifted. Because you are being pulled in so many different directions.
I do think that's why it's really important when you, I mean, it's important for anyone, but it's really important when you're wired like me to really like jump all in, to have those honest advisors around you that will tell you the hard stuff.
Yeah. And you know, your spouse, your spouse is always that person that's going to, he has no problem with that. It's like, um, yeah, Ivan does that for me. He's like, um, real back in. And by the way, I'm like, you Wow, that was brutal. And he's like, brutal. Honestly, I'm like, okay, I get it. But But yes, I mean, you do have to have those advisors around you. And that does kind of lead me to the next question I had. One of the things that I asked was, what advice would you have for someone? And you said, don't be afraid to do the jobs nobody else wants. So I mean, and so of course, that just kind of sucks you anymore, because you're doing what nobody else wants. And of course, you're doing it right for sometimes because it will help advance the career. But um, They're typically the jobs that take the most amount of time, they take you away. And that's why really nobody else wants to do them. But what brought you to that place where that statement is something that comes out of your mouth?
So I heard, I mean, I got that advice from a really wise woman that, you know, I crossed paths within my career, and she had done it. And, um, you know I started kind of looking at things that were challenging right in any organization I was in and things people didn't want to do and usually they were the hard things right and they were sometimes unpopular but they made the most impact um over time and they they weren't always the sexiest things either right but they But but they really did advance the organization or in quite honestly, they're usually the things that are going to bring you the most personal growth as well. And so, you know, over time, I've just, you know, it's become not as much anymore, like I don't want to do it, right? It's now kind of part of my DNA. And I do. do those things. But it was, it is something that I, you know, I do kind of take with me. And when people ask about, you know, that's usually the way to if you really want to be noticed, or you want to get ahead, or you want to, you know, have some impact, it's a good way to do it, too.
Yeah, that's literally when I read through that, I was like, the most impactful things, typically for you as well. The impact it has on your life, on your career, on your relationships, like whatever, are always the things that are hard and you don't want to do. They bring the most growth typically almost all the time. So when we were thinking about that, DAS Health Where are you guys pushing? What hard stuff? Are you guys pushing? Where are you? Like what? Because I have a feeling your organization with you at the helm of it is picking the hard stuff to work on for for growth. So where are you guys going? Like in the next five years?
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So we just, so we've been a fairly inquisitive company over the last, you know, 21 years, many of those acquisitions I was not part of, I can't, you know, take credit for that, because I've only been here for three years. But we recently decided, so we've been in, you know, the kind of, I mean, not kind of the primary, you know, the, the, you know, ambulatory space for the last 21 years, and we've evolved our products and services over time. But recently, we decided we were going to go into senior care. And as you know, you can partner build or buy your way into, you know, a new space, and we decided that we were going to acquire and so we did make an acquisition with an organization out of Milwaukee, BC, BCPI, they're not part of us. So we call them legacy BCPI. And then we did another one out of we did a smaller acquisition from out of Canada, actually, it was Telus International, and it was a piece of their business that we absorbed here. And so we're starting our adventure into senior care. And there is so if we think that things are fragmented in the primary care space in the ambulatory space, it is it's fairly fragmented there as well. And I think a little more behind like in some of the advancements and things that have been adopted there. So those are, you know, harder conversations that, you know, we're having with, you know, ourselves internally about where can we make the most cost effective impacts for our client base? Where can we help them the most? Because oftentimes, depending on what kind of facility they are or residential facility they are, they can have limitations in terms of where they invest. And we want to be a very good steward of how we help them along. And we also want to be looking at what's the next thing that's going to really advance them and make sure that their care is connected. Because they do have a lot of external connections as well into their systems. I can only imagine. I can only imagine. Yeah, but it's really it's an exciting space because that gets me back to my passion, you know, when I was leading the Medicare Advantage, you know, Pride line. You know, I really love that senior care space. I think it's an underserved population. And, you know, everybody loves like the kids right and like you know fundraisers for them and all that but the senior care space i think is a little less defined and a little less you know focused um so i i'm really happy that we're moving into it and you know we're we're looking to make a real impact there that's exciting because you are correct it is a very underserved market um i think
And I don't know where this happened. We I had dinner with some friends last night. And we were talking about, you know, just insurance and the space and, you know, our parents being in, you know, because we're, we're there now, right? We're, we're there with our parents in that space, and how much they don't understand. And then we're getting ready to go into Medicare open enrollment, and they're already getting phone calls. And whatever is being said over the phone, right, they believe. So there's the confusion of just sometimes gonna be old age, it might be some dementia, and then they're being bombarded right and left, because that's where some of the money is at. It is, it's kind of a sad situation, when you look at it from the outside in, or when you're actually on the inside trying to protect them from what's going on outside and with you being in that space with the Medicare Advantage, you, you know what I'm talking about, right? It's in. So it's, it's hard. And I think they're scared. So I'm so glad you guys are in this space, because that is like you said, I think you guys can have a huge impact. And they want to do technology, they want to understand the providers, you know, they want to be able to work with them. But they're afraid they're not going to get paid to because it's, you know, you're dealing with Medicare as well sometimes. So I mean, it's a very complex problem. So I don't envy you. But I am really happy to hear that that's a direction you guys have picked to run at. Is there anything else that you can share with our audience that you think might bring some value to them? I mean, you've already brought a ton of value talking literally about this whole space, but yeah.
I think the other thing I would offer like in terms of just good advice that I've gotten you know during my life and my career that I've really taken to heart and you cannot undervalue it at all is I have like my own and I talked a little bit about it but I have my own personal board of directors okay so it's um you know they are people that now you can't overuse it right for every single little problem you're gonna have or you know you're gonna grapple with but you have to have some trusted people that you have met along the way in your business that you have consciously cultivated a relationship with right that you've made sure that you're bringing value to them and they're bringing value to you but that they will be honest with you and um you know, give you good sage advice when you need it, or at least help you think about it differently through a different lens. And they should not be people like you. Okay, they should be people that are very different from you and think differently from you and make you a little uncomfortable. And that's been invaluable. Like I would not be sitting where I am doing what I'm doing and, you know, have had the success that I have had without that.
That is extremely sound advice. Very, very, very well said I could not have put it any better. So Michelle, how can our listeners, you know, I obviously don't want you to give me your phone number. But if you could share with us a good way, maybe LinkedIn, Facebook, the company website, anyway, if somebody said, Hey, Michelle, I heard you. And Can you elaborate a little bit on this advisory board? Like, how could they get ahold of you?
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, you absolutely can hit the company website and just ask, you know, to talk to me. That's that totally works. I am on LinkedIn under Michelle Jagger. It's very easy. You know, I'm connected to DAS Health there. You know, I do have an Instagram account talking to speaking with social media. So yeah, any of those paths forward, you know, would be fine to use. Absolutely.
I am so grateful for your time today. You have been a delight. This has been enlightening and fun. It's kind of in my wheelhouse. So I kind of liked I was like, Oh, we're gonna get to talk about fun stuff. And of course, you know, nobody thinks that any of this is fun. They're frustrated. They are frustrated. But I think hopefully they listening now know, okay, look, there are people and companies that recognize it is a problem. and that are trying to come up with solutions that will work and maybe even fix some of it. So with DAS Health, thank you so much for what you do. This is exciting.
Yeah, and Tammera, I would just add on to that that I don't think I, you know, DAS is unique that We have this our whole mission here is to find people that are passionate about doing what we're doing. And so if I have 200 plus people that are super passionate about changing the health care system, I know there's other organizations out there, too. So I think I hope that provides a beacon of hope to everyone. With that, you know, there's a lot of us out there that have a true passion about, you know, contributing greatly to that patient experience.
Well, you guys are angels. We appreciate you guys and that passion will not go unnoticed. But everybody, thank you so much again to Michelle and all of the listeners. Make sure you guys like and share the podcast. And Michelle, I hope you have a great day everybody. This is Tammera with everything is up and Michelle Yeager. Everybody have a great afternoon. Bye.
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